Australian Conference Remote: Asbestos and Hazardous Materials (Down Under) Management Conference

The below are my notes and take-a-ways from the conference. If I got anything wrong, then the fault is mine and I apologize in advance for any inaccuracies.

On October 17th and 18th (using the Aussie time of 17 hours ahead of Colorado time), I attended by remote access the “Asbestos & Hazardous Materials Management Conference” held in the Blue Mountains. I know that some convention providers do not want to include remote access as they lose the networking, hurt the vendors and sponsors, and goes against the feeling of community. However, the remote access provides people like me to participate and gain information that otherwise is not easily obtainable. Thank you Jason Adams for pulling this convention together. I am also very thankful for getting a student discount for the conference — not all conferences provide that option. Also, just as a mater of interest, this seminar was top shelf and yet is 1/3 of the price for certain conventions/seminars in the United States. I am just saying.

One proviso — I did experience computer issues with any discussion held in the 2nd room used for the seminar (no sound). The providers believe it to be on my side while I believe that it was on their side. That doesn’t really matter as even in person discussions can have connection issues such as airplane cancelations, bad weather, etc. The goal is to do the best we can and the convention organizers should be thanked for having to divert their attention to me while in the mist of the speeches. I believe that Jason Adams and his people did an outstanding job overall.

The take away points, from my perspective, are as follows:

1. Did Jason Scarborough really use the phrase “mulchgate” in his presentation? I thought so, and almost fell out of my chair.
2. Many of their governmental units are having dedicated teams to handle asbestos emergency issues. I recommend that these teams be something like the fictional “A Team” in that the result is what matters and that they be specialists.
3. They take their asbestos exposure and related issues very seriously. Their asbestos issues are problematic with no easy solutions. However, networking with other countries for best practices makes sense and Australia very much works to help Global South countries with their asbestos issue.
4. The contaminated mulch found in January 2024 was a major logistics problem in terms of identifying the sites, trying to sort how it happened and who is at fault, and then how much remediation was appropriate. They still have 5 sites with low level asbestos exposure.
5. The Australians have a lot of information silos and are making great efforts now to share information and work across jurisdictional lines. Every country that I have seen has similar issues, but the mulch problem really forced people out of complacency and into an action mode.
6. They have an elephant in the room: Costs and lack of inexpensive or easy asbestos waste disposal. They have projects going, but the Do It Yourself (DIY) is a tough nut to crack. They have a lot of programs to identify asbestos, such as roofing material, insulation, and the such, but sorting out the remedies and the cost factor limit completing the projects.
7. Disassembly at the outset before the asbestos gets in a general waste pile is critical to handle the disposal issues.
8. The swiss cheese process for demolition of waste is interesting and makes sense logically. However, the preparation, training and enforcement could be difficult.

In summary, we can learn a great deal from what has occurred in Australia, although money is always going to be an issue on global basis; always. New technological developments and the use of drones can help in that regards..

Below are my actual notes including for each speaker:

The conference began for us remote people at 8:30 am my time (1:30 pm at the conference) with the Conference Opening and Event Partner Welcome. However, the virtual trade floor opened 1 1/2 hours earlier. The trade floor primarily featured the event sponsors and trade displays. When I tried to enter one of the exhibitor rooms, I was told that “no one is here right now. Please come back later.” That is okay, I really don’t need to talk with anyone in the New South Wales Environmental Protection Authority, although it would be nice to see what they say in comparison to the United States EPA about kids building sand castles on beaches known to have some blue asbestos hanging around. As stated on their exhibitor page “the EPA is focused on outcomes that lead to a thriving and sustainable state. It is guided by empathy to bring outside ideas in and implement these perspectives into its regulation where possible. It is also committed to collaborating to overcome the environmental challenges we face.”

The next exhibitor was Property Risk Australia. Again, the exhibitor was unavailable as no one was there. Same with the third exhibitor, the Asbestos and Silica Safety and Eradication Agency, being unavailable. Rather than continue this, it is likely that people were on lunch or still on their morning trip. No big deal. I will wait an hour or so to enter the Conference Opening and check out the exhibitors later.

Conference Opening and Event Partners Welcome — Introduction by Nick Bennett. Turned over to Mark Greenhill as Mayor of the City of Blue Mountain; he was very good. Asbestos is a serious problem in the Blue Mountain’s council because of local issues as about 1/3 of their buildings contain asbestos. Similar issues across the country and world. During last 7 years, the government has worked diligently and goes beyond the legal requirement. Exemplar in the field. Want to partner with other governments, employers, and unions. Want a step by step guide that can be tailored with each situation — collaborate with others. Partnerships for strength and more innovation to keep community safe. Next, brought up event sponsors to speak — nothing really substantive to add — more of a networking discussion and discuss roles and what they do. Did discuss the contaminated mulch. Also mentioned naturally occurring asbestos, legacy asbestos, and illegal dumping. Silica and asbestos dust diseases, need to work to save lives. Nicely done with explaining who does what — perfect introduction in that regard. Commitment to sustainability. Went over conference overviews — to foster across agency lines to get best practices in hazards material management.

Keynote Presentation: Asbestos National Strategic Plan (ANSP) and Silica National Strategic Plan (SNSP). Jodi Deakes is CEO of the Asbestos and Silica Safety and Eradication Agency, NSW, (ASSEA) Australia. Gave a lot of data — very good on both asbestos and silica. Not just benchtops, as become more aware of the risks. Should get her slides to know the history and issues, including bring asbestos and silica issues together about 2011. National organization to coordinate the issues, and then the report by the dust disease natural report. Also, cross-jurisdictional monitoring. Have had two national reports on asbestos based on evidence. Third plan just approved for engagement and support but also pushing harder on the pro-active elimination of asbestos. Good collaboration and what it means. Data and research tough to obtain in this space. Aims 1, 2, and 3 with 9 priorities. AIM No 3 is to be an international leader including helping those is South Asia. Looking at elimination and not just regulation, and costs economically and socially. Includes options timing 2100 if stay the course, 2073 with improved regulations, and 2068 with incentives. Life saving of up to 27,461 and savings in health costs. Lots of advantages economic, qualitative, and humane. Consider giving asbestos removal incentives and what would look like — free assessments, grants, low interest loans, tax incentives, etc. Their website has a lot of data and product guides to help people no what looking at, heat mapping, etc. Also, what does repeating low level asbestos approval. Have campaigns and messages. “Asbestos can Kill.” Coordinates those campaigns with other organizations — need to cut through all the other safety messaging to the public on other issues. Have a national guidance for communicators to cut through perceptions. Silica National Strategic Plan — went into plans and workplace exposure reduction. Go to ASSEA website for a lot of information. Banners and posters at DIY stores and activities. Cost prohibitive and dumping need to be addressed. Need to discuss permitting to transport waste, but is none. Use technology about location beepers to help track. A lot of good ideas to all pull together cost effectively based on questions and responses. This was excellent.

Keynote Presentation: The role of the NSW Asbestos Coordination Committee by Carolyn Walsh, Chair of the NSW Asbestos Coordination Committee from NSW Australia. Also on the Board of the EPA. Discussed a coordinated approach, including the cross-communication to handle the mulch issue. Issues started in January 2024 and escalated quickly. Began with identification of the supply train. Task force established on the issue with many agencies working together. Health Secretary wanted to meet personally with chiefs of the agencies. Extra ordinary response. Take away that the level of asbestos is still an issue without a continuing level of community outrage. 1200 samples, 80 sites identified with 60 having friable, and wound up the task force last week as down to 5 low risk sites. Still issues on getting money as in the reactive and not proactive mode. Got more training with fees waived. Illegal dumping is an issue and trying to address science with safety risk. Some of larger sites are low profile and need to sort through use of resources. This was outstanding. DIY is the most challenging area in this space. Need to meet channels for information, and if a commercial work place but not covering DIY. Any idea would be appreciated. Issue with older generation culture, while younger culture is much more attuned to issues. Older are more cynical. EPA has a good video. Banned in 2003.

Benefits of internal capability for managing hazardous materials in buildings and land — Daniel Adler, Ana-Marie Faust, and Jason Adams. Need dedicated teams is the take away, sometimes rent themselves out to be sustainable. Old construction practices. Good stuff discussing asbestosis, bush fires, pre-burn inspections as growth is by definition a hazard. Images say tough to do. Drivers for internal capability development — waste material stored and reused, asbestos in waste, no processes or procedures, etc. Been a very high profile to do the drivers — need internal capability of handling asbestos. EPA driving locals to deal with. Now have dedicated teams to work on asbestos and train others. Uncontrolled fill with asbestos. Same need for lead paint, etc. Demolition is a big issue. Remediation is important. Illegal dumping is a real problem as has to triage as to asbestos in an unexpected finds — need internal capability to handle. Benefits and costs. Most important driver is the compliance benefit. Also operational benefit as can quickly mobilize in under 2 hours. Recreational benefit and organization benefit, and financial benefits. Issues right on what the ADAO advocates as risk in the United States.

Platinum Sponsor Presentation – Property Risk Australia

Alternative Perspectives on the Management of Asbestos in Recovered Material for Beneficial Reuse in NSW by Darren Saunders and Dominic Pace. The Office of the NSW Chief Scientist and Engineer (OCSE). Respond to problems, work with other experts to advise ministers on science and engineering but completely avoid policies. No investigation on compliance. Website has all of the details. LOOK AT MANAGING ASBESTOS AND HOW OTHERS ARE MANAGING ASBESTOS. CURRENTLY ONGOING. Sampling and analysis, tolerable thresholds. Zero tolerance and the one fibre of asbestos kills do not accurately reflect the risk and current sampling is incompatible with zero tolerance. We are all exposed to background levels of asbestos every day. Have a review process including getting expert panel literature reviews, stakeholders engagement, and report. Hire people to provide thoughts. Complex topic — standards and guidelines for asbestos in waste, sampling, and such. Good stuff on science — wonder if in the US bowels of government? Commissioned independent literature reviews. 30 submissions (13 confidential) received, 13 site visits, and consultations. Many expressed support for a through chain risk-based approach to managing asbestos. Want to catch and subrogate at source. Swiss Cheese Model to prevent going through supply chain multiple layers improve success. How create a manageable supply chain with goal of stopping asbestos at the other end. Though chain risk-based approach and integrate it through supply chain. Mapping and risk monitoring. Significant room for improvement. Likely published at end of November. Eliminate or reduce asbestos going through waste and recycling supply chains. Shifting mind set as no minimum value. Some solution is technology based while others relied on well trained and skilled operators. Effective and acceptable process and that solutions may not be a one size fits all. I wonder how this issue on asbestos from demolition applies to war zones and re-building from war zones? SPECTACULAR PRESENTATION.

Executive Forum by Isaac Mann, local government NSW for work health and safety Act 2011 (NSW). Discussion on the safety act including offers making decisions or participating in decisions. Local Government Act 1992 (NSW) s 220 says a council more a corporation and a body politic. Discussed duty of officers and a primary duty of care. Liability for asbestos and hazardous materials – Local government. Special executive liability and appliction to councils. Actions to avoid special executive liability — need to understand what do and that employee have a plan and training. Illegal dumping is a big issue.

Day 2

WHS Regulatory Requirements to Manage Risks from Asbestos by Steven Nikolovski and Gail Moss, of SafeWork NSW. Time ran out prior to starting. A no show session.

Next session — Reliability of asbestos fibre air monitoring results — no volume. But volume okay in other breakout session on Asbestos Roofs and Natural Disasters.

Next set of breakouts, I watched the household asbestos collection program. Interesting stuff, but nothing that stood out on its own.

Next set of breakouts, I watched the Disclosure of asbestos and property buyers in Victoria by attorney Briana Jackman of Maurice Blackburn. Mostly a primer on attorneys and claims. Claims generally settled in three to six months, few going to trial. Discussion about James Hardie and market share issues.

Next was Asbestos contamination of recovered resources by Jason Scarborough, consultant with JS Regulatory Services. Issue is frontline and strategic perspective and building capacity in local governments to manage the complex regulatory challenges. Discussion on whether the regulatory systems in place adequate — many seem to say no. None believed that law firm disposal of asbestos was properly incentivized. “Mulchgate?” Discussion on mulch and series of processes that made friable. Circular economy, need to transfer from using raw resources and must use recycled and recovered resources. DIY asbestos removal must stoop — otherwise illegal dumping. 159 recorded incidents of illegal dumping of asbestos sheeting in 2022/3. Can conceal delivery to a waste facility. Demolition needs to stop. Disassembly instead before can mix in. Elimination is the most effective way to be safe. Asbestos waste must be free of waste levy as the financials do not help if trying to incentive people to do it right. Need a funded high-risk removal program. Need to improve regulatory coordination. Remove asbestos up front and process to handle it. EXCELLENT PRESENTATION.

BIG REOCCURING ISSUE IS THE PROBLEM WITH ILLEGAL DUMPING INCLUDING HIDING THE ASBESTOS, AND GOING TO CONTAMINATED WASTE FACILITES.

Next breakout was Sustainability Victoria, Asbestos Disposal Project by Selena Pappa of Sustainability Victoria — virtual presentation. Increasing access to asbestos disposal options. Looking to ways to manage — model, guidance, and communication support package. Brings together the pieces of the waste system. ADP model — promotion, etc. Described system for small asbestos. Interesting approach and could be replicated in other countries as this is a big issue. Need ongoing collection/disposal access for asbestos, including DIY for safe disposal. FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Next breakout — The obligations to report pollution incidents under the Protection of the Environment Operations Act 1997, eg: asbestos in mulch by Katherine Pickerd, of Colin Biggers & Paisley. High level regulations. THE MULCH ISSUE SEEMS TO DRIVE ALOT OF ISSUES INCLUDING THE NEED TO TRACE BACK SUPPLY TRAINS ALONG WITH WHAT CAN BE LEFT AND BE CONSIDERED SAFE. TIE INTO MY BEACH THESIS. January 2024 noticed and all went active. One question is duty to report and currently a criminal investigation. Pollution incident by an activity, material harm to the environment caused or threatened, likely, and in an activity.

Next breakout is Supa Roofing Survey Work by Ben Treharne, NSW Environment Protection Authority. Regulator and the lead environmental steward of the state. Aging asbestos are a key priority issue. ACM Roofs are a high risk asbestos product and key for removal. Bad in an destructive event like fire or flood. Super 6 roofing material, with high density residential. Using imagery to identify hotspots by using high resolution photos. AI used to view and detect results. Then quantification based on the 2500 identified asbestos roofs in part 1. Six roof area detected at 2,100,00 square meters. Helps in determining hot spots and making priorities. Used heat maps and graphs. Part 3 was a risk assessment. This allowed creating priorities. Next is two more stages: (1) close the loop on the Super 6 zones and (2) investigate super six distribution. Report anticipated in early 2025 from consultant UX. Got data set to drive the work to be done. Good value for money.

ASBESTOS ROOF ARE A BIG AND TOUGH ISSUES. NO REAL REMEDIATION PLAN ONCE IDENTIFY.

MY CONCERNS IS THAT A LOT OF HISTORICAL SILOS ARE TRYING TO CROSS-HELP EACH OTHER. TOUGH TO MAKE THAT CHANGE WITHOUT A FULL CULTURE AND PERSONNEL CHANGES. NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION AND WORKING TOGETHER.

LOTS OF MODELLING AND INVESTIGATION, BUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS HOW MUCH INVESTIGATION BEFORE START INCURRING THE COSTS AND DIFFICULTY WITH REMADIATION. ESPECIALLY IF NEED TO DISASSEMBLE FIRST.

Lead containing paint and dust a risk?, by Nigel Johnson as Managing Director of Property Risk Australia. Lead contaminated waste disposed illegally. Register and demolition. Risk of lead paint, especially when layered. Gave primer on lead related issues and illnesses. Kids in risk assessment — higher because put everything in the mouth. SAME ISSUE AS SAND AT BEACH. Same issue as the need to eliminate the lead before putting it in to waste. Hazardous, residential is exempt, etc. Many involves residential demos. 2001 Standards for lead concentration is a good guide, on website. Sample with gun or physical sample. Aus rely on the US information numbers from US Dep of Housing and Urban Development. Dust and issue during demo — ceiling spaces and such.

Nursing models of care/support and psychosocial issues for workers exposed to asbestos and other dusts by Dr. Vanessa Brunelli and Prof Haryana Dhillion, University of Wollongong and U of Sydney, respectively. Different take home messages. Lack evidence based modeling and so level of cares varies. Model of care is about the delivery of health services including best practices. Model of care for asbestos has an excellent chart. How do we get better individualized model of care. Funding from government is low as so many issues such as asbestos, silica, black lung, etc. NHMRC giving almost nothing. Not a priority at this time. Need to drive policy change so have multi approach. Mental side of the treatment of meso and other cancers — quality of life. 612 male study of asbestos exposure. Psychological and anxiety. Fear of asbestos cancer is real. Coping and avoidance. Group therapies to minimize uncertainty and trauma. Stepped care model and clear treatment options. Fear of cancer recurrence. Evidence based to reduce fear of cancer developed in Australia. For asbestos, fear of exposure without manifestation long term.

How safe are our analysts? by Colette Willoughby chair of NORAC in U.K. Female analyst 2021 working group as to whether females were under represented. Big job with challenges, and often abused on site. Personal sampling data of asbestos. Personal monitoring disclosure. Not allowed to wear clothes under uniform because of need to decontaminate potentially. Minimal risk. Few woman in demolition.

Jason Adams closed out.

Concluded about 11:05 p.m. Mountain time.

Let me know what you think either in the comments or by sending me an email at TheAsbestosBlog@gmail.com. Thanks, Marty.